Wave aligning drum overheads

[Manning]

Had a client record a live kit with a typical setup of close mics plus two overheads recently. No phasing problems.

However, after we tracked the kit, the client wanted the waveform for the overheads shifted forward to account for the delay with the close mic on the snare. (The client had attended some audio course and he'd been told this was a good practice.)

We did as instructed, but I didn't like the result at all - it seemed to suck the life out of the kit.

Does anyone else do this? If so, why?

[The Tasmanian]

Hey Manning - I'm glad his your client! ( I would have refused his request )
As you found out, it does not work with the rest of the kit.
Why do these amateurs think that the snare is so important that they ignore the phase of the rest of the kit?

The only time Ive ever done this is to a room mic that was 3 rooms away with all the doors open, in this case the delay was too much, so I pull it forward a bit. ( but never line it up )
Sounds like the audio course has a section dealing with parrots
DUMB idea - DUMB teacher

[Kurt]

I've had a client get me to do the same thing. I didn't like it either. I will sometimes align the overheads with each other, using the snare as centre, if they sound lopsided.
The delays, phase anomolies etc are what makes it sound like a real kit in a real room.

[ChrisW]

Can't believe this was supposedly taught on a course.

It's an ok technique to try, but works best if a lot of mics are used, and you only move one pair that have a significant delay from the close mics.
I agree though, it generally sucks the life out of the kit. It's completely natural to hear a delay between close mics and far room mics. That's what gives it the big ambient sound.
We've tried this a few times, and always prefer the non-alligned, au-naturel audio, over the nudged audio.

[Manning]

I'm very pleased to hear this. The course he attended was a "name-brand" course so I was very surprised.

This guy won't let us mix for him, we just do the tracking, because "he knows how to mix his own stuff" (via Cubase on a Macbook).

I'll assume he doesn't read TR, so let me diplomatically say his mixes are horrific. First compress everything to hell, then add reverb to "put the life back into it". EQ at random.

[ChrisW]

The 'name brand' courses often shock me.
To be fair, I have worked with a couple of people who do this, and the result is fine, if that's the sound you like.
It certainly isn't a default way to deal with drums, and like you guys that have posted, I mostly enjoy drum sounds with natural ambience.

[headman]

Hey Manning,
you should ask him how was this done when we all used tape!!!!!

[Wiz]

Hey Manning,
you should ask him how was this done when we all used tape!!!!!

really really really carefully

[DarkSky]

My take on this is to either adjust for phase & polarity when placing the mics - having regard to the whole kit (all mics), not just the snare and the o'heads - OR consider messing with phase shifting or time shifting etc later - but not both. Ie if the kit was tracked sounding 'right' (full, thick, fat and punchy) then 'time aligning' tracks afterwards is unnecessary and - as likely as not - counterproductive, as in this case.

[ChrisW]

Most people I know doing this are not seeking to adjust/fix phase. They like a big room drum sound, but dislike the 'smear' such drum sounds tend to exhibit. If you bring the room mics forward, you lose any delay, and the drums seem more focussed, while remaining big.
I find the result tends to sound un-natural, and I have no problem with room mics slightly lagging behind close mics.