sidechain compression

[jkhuri44]

gday guys....

i've been wanting to use sidechaining on my kick/bass in my mixes....and also possibly on 2 submixes on my mix to keep things in line...

but i sadly get very confused on what the correct way to apply it is..

does anyone have any pointers in regards to this?? or some online or otherwise resources??

cheers..

JK.

[Chris H]

By side chain, do you mean paralell compression?.. OK
I presume you are ITB also, so, I'll describe how i do it on Logic. I put a comp on one of the stereo busses say buss#1 and pull the fader down. I usualy compress fairly heavily for parallel. Then on the cannel strips you want , Kick and snr, i I sellect buss 1, crank up the virtual pot till its normalised ,ie 0 for both kick & snr. Then i go to the buss fader and add to taste. Usually not much. I will use light compression on the original tchannels if any. That way you get spanking drums with a hard attack. Also with the heavilly compressed buss ( a secret tip for some ) you get more highs coming through in a subtle way that is often better way of brightening things up without eq.
Also if you already have a good balance in the mix before paralell comp then pull the original faders down a few Db and make the gain up with adding the bussed comped signal.
Oh yes.. just remembered ... Logics got auto delay compensation. Hope your software does too. Most likley will.
Hope this helps... back to work!

[jkhuri44]

using PT HD.

last time i checked, my session was compensated...

so you've explained where to put it......but...let me just ask at the possibility of being an idiot :P

side chaining basically kills the need to set attack and release....? and also threshold??

so the program material is what is doin the attack and release settings yes?

[Chris H]

Hey mate. No risk of being an idiot. When i was sussing this stuff out, it took a while to work out what the attack, release & threshold was even for!!!!...and i'm still learning, I hope.
You still need to adjust the threshold, attack & release settings. When I first add the bussed signal i'll bring the fader up to unity, or there abouts, and probably turn down the monitors, poor little suckers, and set threshold etc again to taste. For smashing the drums i often set a quick attack - slow release - and low threshold. Lots of possibilities like feeding different amounts of each track to the buss comp, automating it for a section of a song etc.
SSL have a free plugin that will squash the crap out of the drum mix and add a fair bit of grainy distortion.... great for room mics and snare, but it will change the eq

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/resour ... lugin.html

[jkhuri44]

ok...

so...ill be trying this to solidify my kick drum and bass guitar groove...

and will be trying this on the drums/bass submix, sidechaining it to some large percussion tracks behind the drums....


my head hurts already...LOL!

[otto ruiter]

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/rhulse ... echain.htm

http://www.digitalprosound.com/2001/02_ ... queeze.htm

google for +"how to" +sidechain +compression and much will be revealed.

If you are using a specific compressor (or plugin) the manufacturer will usually have descriptions of techniques on their site or in the manual.

[heathen]

Sidechaining is basically frequency dependant compression, such as de- esssing, patching an equaliser into the sidechain loop on a comp will let you decide which freq range compression will act on. If you want less compression on your low freq turn the lf on the eq down, want to de-ss find the freq and boost it and compression will act more heavilly on that band.

A sidechain eq is NOT in the audio path it is used as a controller so most shitty eqs can be used for SC duties. Also you can duplicate tracks in a DAW and send a plugin eq'd version to the SC of the comp from a spare output on your converters.

Some comps have basic SC filters buit in which are especially handy.

Sidechaining and parallel compression should not be confused, they are different.

[heathen]

[quote="jkhuri44"]ok...

so...ill be trying this to solidify my kick drum and bass guitar groove...

and will be trying this on the drums/bass submix, sidechaining it to some large percussion tracks behind the drums....


my head hurts already...LOL![/quote]

Parallel compression is a great way to beef up drums!

There ya go 2 things to learn, check out the online WIKI for ideas on these as there is some great well explained info there.

[jkhuri44]

i dont know why...

but everytime i've tried parallel compression....ive ended up with annoying phasing...

does anyone else get this? and how can i piss it off? :P

perhaps the way i set it up as a send in PT is the problem...(i think tools is the problem, as it seems to generate unexplainable phasing even when your just playing the original track and the sent portion without adding effects)...

[geofflee]

i dont know why...

but everytime i've tried parallel compression....ive ended up with annoying phasing...

does anyone else get this? and how can i piss it off? :P

perhaps the way i set it up as a send in PT is the problem...(i think tools is the problem, as it seems to generate unexplainable phasing even when your just playing the original track and the sent portion without adding effects)...

I don't get phasing, and I'm only on LE.

[davemc]

i dont know why...

but everytime i've tried parallel compression....ive ended up with annoying phasing...

does anyone else get this? and how can i piss it off? :P

perhaps the way i set it up as a send in PT is the problem...(i think tools is the problem, as it seems to generate unexplainable phasing even when your just playing the original track and the sent portion without adding effects)...

Will depend on the plugin used.. If your plugin adds delay. It will phase.
You will need to either put the same plugin on the other track bypassed or time adjust.
Problem with time adjust is some plugins are not the samples they say they are. (waves comes to mind most times)

[geofflee]

i dont know why...

but everytime i've tried parallel compression....ive ended up with annoying phasing...

does anyone else get this? and how can i piss it off? :P

perhaps the way i set it up as a send in PT is the problem...(i think tools is the problem, as it seems to generate unexplainable phasing even when your just playing the original track and the sent portion without adding effects)...

Will depend on the plugin used.. If your plugin adds delay. It will phase.
You will need to either put the same plugin on the other track bypassed or time adjust.
Problem with time adjust is some plugins are not the samples they say they are. (waves comes to mind most times)

jkhuri44 is getting phasing even when there's not a pluggin on the aux track. Must be a HD thing. BTW I've meaured the sample delays caused by my most-used Waves plugins, and they agree with the reported delays.

[davemc]

jkhuri44 is getting phasing even when there's not a pluggin on the aux track. Must be a HD thing. BTW I've meaured the sample delays caused by my most-used Waves plugins, and they agree with the reported delays.

Not if your v4, or if you use multiplies, even v5 demo try renbass at a mates place.
Not the only plugins that lie. Just something to keep in mind when using plugins. Trust your ears not the plugins

[heathen]

Nuendo has no issues with phasing I've found for most plugins, say 99% of them, for some reason it has superb compensation. I've often heard people complaining about protools compensation, I thought it should be better than Nuendo for ADC but I guess it is not.

I'm always using analog comps for parallel duties, no probs at all there. In the box do as Dave mentioned and make your plugin chains for parallel stuff the same, as they surely do report wrong delay times sometimes.

[geofflee]

There's no ADC problems in PT LE as long as you use a compressor with no sample delays, like BF76 (which is great) or the standard Digi compressors.

[Mark Bassett]

Try printing your paralled submix compressed tracks. Frees up your CPU, and you can then time align the tracks by hand to avoid any phasing issues.

It also sounds like people are (as always) getting parallel compression [eg sending a submix of drums to a comp then mixing it back in with the original drums] and the sidechain function of a compressor [eg frequency dependant compression] confused.

[geofflee]

(mock indignation!!) Heathan cleared up that confusion on Saturday. I was just following the general direction of the thread and clearing up any misconceptions about the way PT LE works.

[jkhuri44]

sorry guys,

i havent been replying to this thread...for a number of reasons...wondering where its going being the foremost..

when i say i am applying sidechain compression, i mean it in reference to "ducking"...as a way to make the bass/kick drum and also the large percussion/drum submixes pump in rhythmic ways... and avoid mud and confusion within frequencies...

[Chinagraf]

Hi, I just came across the post - you're talking about ducking other tracks or the whole mix yeah - good example is the Eric Prydz Valerie remix or anything the Benassi brothers do (putting reverb on a bass and ducking it off the kick). @ ways - in the box or outside it (ANALOG). The analog way is easiest with a console but you can do it setting up your outputs correctly. Send everything you want ducked out one output and patch it through the compressor, then send whatever you want to key (trigger) the compressor with out a seperate output and feed that to the sidechain input on the compressor. The compressor will have a switch/button that says sidechain, or some of them automatically key off the sidechain input as soon as you plug something into it. On a my console I patch a group out into the sidechain input, then I can just assign the kick out that group and it keys the compressor. If I want hihat instead to key it I just assign that out the group instead of the kick. Sometimes I send a mix of tracks out the key group. The tightening thing you're looking for is most likely a compressor over the bass that's keyed off the kick. It will pull the bass back whenevr the kick hits. This is also good over a hihat mic keyed off a snare so you don't hear snare bleed into the hihat mic. Or sometimes strings and pads are good keyed off a vocal so they can be loud but not fight with it. Most obvious use in dance stuff is compressing the whole mix and keying it off the kick to make it pump. Although one of the best everyday uses I do this for is where you have a mix of live drums and loops that are flamming a bit, you compress the loops and key them off the live kick and/or snare and flams begone.
Now if you want to do it in the box there is a plug called sidekick at www.twistedlemon.com that is pretty good and free. Instructions how to set it up come with it. It has 4 sidechain channels and you can use any of them by slecting the sidechain channel on the group you want to use it on.
It has a choice of ducking or gating, so with gating you can tighten things up by gating them and keying the gate from a hihat or even a midi note. Prince's Kiss is a good example of this.
Happy pumping.

[Kurt]

www.twistedlemon.nl

[Chris H]

sorry guys,

i havent been replying to this thread...for a number of reasons...wondering where its going being the foremost..

when i say i am applying sidechain compression, i mean it in reference to "ducking"...as a way to make the bass/kick drum and also the large percussion/drum submixes pump in rhythmic ways... and avoid mud and confusion within frequencies...

Well i did seek clarification..sort of.. before i went up...or down the garden path!
.quoteing myself. [.By side chain, do you mean paralell compression?.. ] end quote.

[jkhuri44]

sorry again :(

i forgot the name for what i was talking about...when i Mark clarified it, my question made alot more sense...

sorry for makin u run around the bush Chris : (