*Rant

[smash]

So...

I'm waiting 42 minutes to render out a 0.5 frame shift in an audio track. (It's a 42 minute show)

It's bloody ridiculous in this day and age that ProTools HD can't render out faster than real time.

/EndRant

Simon "Smash" Ashby

[PeteB]

Not pushing any particular DAW at all but I'd find it very difficult to mix with out off line rendering. I use Reaper, Mixbus and Protools. But I don't bother to mix with Protools for this very reason.

[Sammas]

So...

I'm waiting 42 minutes to render out a 0.5 frame shift in an audio track. (It's a 42 minute show)

It's bloody ridiculous in this day and age that ProTools HD can't render out faster than real time.

/EndRant

Simon "Smash" Ashby

Oh man. I've been there. Last year I did about dozen voice over session for a hypnotherapist. Its bad enough almost falling asleep in the sessions... waiting for the audio to bounce was killer. I snapped after the first session and started using reaper for it.

Beyond that, it doesn't bother me. As soon as you patch outboard into a session you can't do anything other than real-time bouncing.

[audioio]

It's bloody ridiculous in this day and age that ProTools HD can't render out faster than real time.

I've been told it's an architectural issue with the 56x chips. They're always running at 100%, even if you're not using all the TDM slots. Therefore, there's no extra capacity for faster-than-realtime bouncing.

It's conceivable that the Native versions could have had this feature because they'd not have the same constraint. (And we've seen it in other native products.) But of course Avid wouldn't have dared undermine HD.

Looks as if it might be possible on HDX (since they use SHARCs), but we have to wait for Avid to write an engine for it... well, RELEASE an engine for it.

[obutcher]

It's been hinted by Avid that the move to AAX plugins would hopefully facilitiate something like this in the future... but no promises apparently. I think they're trying to get it to happen, but the current architecture won't let it.

[Thirteen]

Nuendo.

[smash]

Nuendo.

Yeah... Would be nice, but Pro Tolls is the only thing you see in video land.

On a positive note, it did force me to go and have a dinner break

Simon "Smash" Ashby

[tony]

I feel your pain. I recorded 8 hours of 'self managed super fund tax law' VO for a client a few years a go. Trying to listen back to that bounce down in real time after a weeks worth edits.... that will test your listening skills

[rick]

It's really tough having to listen to sound in real
Time while you get paid to fix audio

I so feel all your pain

[gigpiglet]

i do so much of it now (with the live shows i mix) that i have a second machine... bounce on one, start working on the next project on the other.
but rick does have a point... ;-)

[Drumstruck]

No argument about the "wasted" waiting time - but I'm surprised you professional guys don't have multiple DAWs

I'd be scared to death running a business off 1 computer - and constantly curse my SPOF router....

- that's a bit more to the rant

[rick]

I get phone calls all the time
" can you do a 14 track compilation for me ..
My usual guy is away and it's urgent "

"Ok sure "I say "what's your timeframe / budget "

"Oh he usually does it in less then an hour and charges $100 "

"Hmm we have a problem because its going to take
Me a minimum of three hours ..."

" Really ..? Why "

" well I have to listen to it "

" really ..? Why ? "


I appriecate the drudgery involved in computer
Tasks .. But I have the best of everything and I
Cannot trust audio in real time day to day
It just doesn't work 100% of the time
I wish it did

I guess at this point avid cannot deliver glitch free
Offline stuff easily

But I don't care what anybody writes about any other
Platform or the fact they have never had a problem

If you have audio .. At some point you will have a problem
For no obvious reason

Q/C is part of the process and its just that
Part of the process .. Even if its a drag

Who is ever going to check a 45 min file for
Glitches after it has been bounced offline a few
Times .. ?

Well somebody would
And there should be money to pay them to do it
in a budget Somewhere ?

If you trust audio 100% of the time and don't care to listen to it
Better get a new vocation

( yes yes ..I know the original rant is about video land .. And it's lucky thre is even
Sound at all to go with pictures )

[stosostu]

Rick, that is very reminiscent of a discussion I had at the Sound Archives in Canberra. They were digitising recorded sound from the 1930's, largely old radio broadcasts, for long term storage, a wonderful idea, IMO. However, the operators were sitting in front of computers and 'watching' the waveform for glitches etc, BUT, they didn't even have speakers or phones connected. When I questioned them as to how they could decide on what bits of the "audio" to compress, cut, etc without listening to it, they looked at me as if I had just arrived from Mars. On one system the guy was digitising recordings of England Vs Australia cricket matches, you might remember that these were the times when the announcer would be reading copy off a telegraphic tape and adding 'sound effects' like the ball hitting the bat (by tapping the end of a pencil on a wooden block). When I asked if the 'glitches' might be those actual sound effects I was met with a shrug of the shoulders and complete disregard for what might be happening. I later wrote to the Director of the archive, pointing out my concerns, but since I didn't get a reply, I have never been sure as to whether it did any good.

Death to Audio Nazis..............

[Chris H]

etc etc,....Death to Audio Nazis..............

that is mind bogglingly stupid. Fancy not even listening......while editing sound......at the Sound Archives in Canberra......WTF???? that's a new low for the public service.......maybe they should be called the public disservice

[Drumstruck]

Whilst on the rant, library, archiving theme ....

I sold a Ta@#$% DAT master and a Ta@#$% MD master recorder to the State Lib of W.A. last year - they were very nice people to deal with - anyway, the items went missing in transit and were never found (I'll tell you which couriers NOT to use offline).

4 months later after much hassling I got the insurance money. I suppose someone got a couple of free devices.... or perhaps they're sitting in the back of a freight warehouse somewhere in Outer Soundholia.....

the moral - always, always insure the things you freight - it's worth the couple of %

[Paul Maybury]

I love two things about Logic. The "export all tracks as audio files" command and the Tape Delay plugin.
Pro Tools editing is better, but for my studio work, Logic gets the nod.
Pro Tools is used at work for dialog editing and cart production.
Reaper is great for audio capture and file management.
Swings and roundabouts, but if P.T. had an "export all" command, it would be the one.
I check through the tracks after exporting them, but being able to tell the DAW to export ALL the files in a project into whatever folder you want, as audio, and go away and make a cup of tea while you wait 10 minutes for it to render an albums worth of multitracks is gold.
Cheers,
Paul Maybury

[Ausrock]

- anyway, the items went missing in transit and were never found (I'll tell you which couriers NOT to use offline).

Sounds like a number of experiences we've had with Allied Express

[Kurt]

I know a couple of guys who work there. They don't do any compression or editing at all for archiving, it's purely a transfer from one medium to another.

Rick, that is very reminiscent of a discussion I had at the Sound Archives in Canberra. They were digitising recorded sound from the 1930's, largely old radio broadcasts, for long term storage, a wonderful idea, IMO. However, the operators were sitting in front of computers and 'watching' the waveform for glitches etc, BUT, they didn't even have speakers or phones connected. When I questioned them as to how they could decide on what bits of the "audio" to compress, cut, etc without listening to it, they looked at me as if I had just arrived from Mars. On one system the guy was digitising recordings of England Vs Australia cricket matches, you might remember that these were the times when the announcer would be reading copy off a telegraphic tape and adding 'sound effects' like the ball hitting the bat (by tapping the end of a pencil on a wooden block). When I asked if the 'glitches' might be those actual sound effects I was met with a shrug of the shoulders and complete disregard for what might be happening. I later wrote to the Director of the archive, pointing out my concerns, but since I didn't get a reply, I have never been sure as to whether it did any good.

Death to Audio Nazis..............

[smash]

No argument about the "wasted" waiting time - but I'm surprised you professional guys don't have multiple DAWs

I'd be scared to death running a business off 1 computer - and constantly curse my SPOF router....

It's really tough having to listen to sound in real
Time while you get paid to fix audio

I so feel all your pain

Sitting here with 4 Mac Pro's all rendering out video... and a spare ready to drop in if we lose one...

The audio fix was a freebee , my "2pip" (audio sync point at the start of a video) was spanning two frames of video... which unfortunately = tech check failure further down the line.

Never rely on just one of everything for your business to work - including yourself.

Simon "Smash" Ashby

[gigpiglet]

totally agree..
three identical machines at my place (which is why when i change/ upgrade something its a massive hassle x3)

[rick]

Yes this is what the world needs
3 of everything to get the job done


I use to wonder when I was a kid why the council
Workers all stood around chatting while only
One guy was working .. Now I know

3 of every thing because its digital and its forever

.. Worlds gone mad

[gigpiglet]

hey all three of those machines work!
and when one blows up (like last week)
we keep on working.. (while i shop on ebay for a replacement)
which reminds me - posting in the for sale section now

[DarkSky]

- anyway, the items went missing in transit and were never found (I'll tell you which couriers NOT to use offline).

Sounds like a number of experiences we've had with Allied Express

And rather better than our experience when TNT attempted to bring a set of JBL monitors down from QLD last year (they arrived in quite a few pieces). They were insured and the insurance pay out was received - eventually - but the number of phone calls, photos and emails involved would roll your eyeballs permanently back into your head.

[Drumstruck]

- anyway, the items went missing in transit and were never found (I'll tell you which couriers NOT to use offline).

Sounds like a number of experiences we've had with Allied Express

And rather better than our experience when TNT attempted to bring a set of JBL monitors down from QLD last year (they arrived in quite a few pieces). They were insured and the insurance pay out was received - eventually - but the number of phone calls, photos and emails involved would roll your eyeballs permanently back into your head.

Exactly - and when couriers sub-contract to other couriers it gets worse - so frustrating - then they want scans to prove that they collected the items from you (rant rant)..... they even tried the line that they returned the item to me!

On a good note - our new iPad died the other day - I called Apple support and they sent a replacement overnight - great support and service.

Ahh now I feel better

[gigpiglet]

i dont use couriers - ever
i use showfreight.
only
best in the business
fully insured etc
and know what they are doing with gear.
from one box being moved across town - to multiple semis being sent across the country
i wont accept anyone else.

if you ever want to use them for anything - feel free to tell them i sent you.

[audioio]

I use to wonder when I was a kid why the council
Workers all stood around chatting while only
One guy was working .. Now I know

3 of every thing because its digital and its forever

.. Worlds gone mad

Excuse me for saying so, Rick, but I would have thought that you, as a connoisseur of diy and tools, had experience of a jack hammer.

[rick]

When I was a kid
Councils dug with spades ...
And they taught you at school which dinoasaurs were ok to eat and which ones
We're poisonous and would give you belly aches
..
All jack hammer jokes are wasted on a thread about why avid dont
Do something clever ..
Actually all jokes are wasted on Avid