What's happening to the recording industry? and its future?

[Chris H]

That story is kinda related to what I''d say. I totally agree it has changed big time. I started in 87 as digital was pretty much a stereo thing for master recordings (1610, F1) and have travelled through the whole technology change. I completely understand people wanting to go do something else, I have sat up late many a night thinking the same thing. Not sure what I would do though, I have been in studios since I was a teenager and have no experience at anything else.
I was talking with a producer the other day who felt there is still life in the industry but it needs a new approach. I said what is it, he said I dunno. What do Trockers think are new directions? I have found that mobility has created more interest recently than my mix room full of nice vintage outboard. Take a nice mic, mic pre and good converters and head out to someone's home and record in their environment, make it sound great and give them the vocal files at the end of the day. Have a beer, get the cash and bail back to my room which is home base, but not always the centre of production. I've also gotten interest heading down to band's rehearsal spaces and recording them there. Taking the renting a big space cost out of the tracking budget means they are only paying for me and the gear. Sure the rooms aren't as good, but it might also be time to adapt or die? At the same time, I have come across some great sounding drum rooms in ordinary homes, so who knows. Anyone else got any thoughts on adapted/alternate business approaches for the glorious new eon?

This is along the lines of how I've been working since about 1998...... bit of this bit of that, live mixing live, live recording,..... a good studio to work out of when the client wants to pay for the studio space plus my time,....... weekend recordings in a band members holiday house, now a room out the back of a venue for live recordings. Why tonight, even, I'm off to track vocals in a church,.... I recorded the band bed tracks in the studio a month ago and will probably mix at my home when tracking is finished. Adaptable and versitile and staying happy.....got to feed your soul.

[obutcher]

Went to NZ recently. Came home in awe of their beers. They know what's up with beer making. That '8 Wired' stuff in that NZ list is pretty unfrickenbelievable. Easily my favourite beer manufacturer at the moment by far.

Coopers Vintage? Only been able to find that at one pub in Sydney. Would be keen for it to be in a lot more places!

[rob]

I was listening to the local community radio station earlier today ( as I do most days ). They were interviewing a couple of lads from a new local up and coming band who were keen to talk about their new 'record'. They gushed over the fact that they had met this kid up in the hills, "who's like only about 17" and had set himself up with a "studio". They said, and I quote, "he is really good. He has learnt how to make these great recordings from like, just watching utube videos and stuff. He has made us sound really good! He just needs to try and pay for all the equipment he has bought"

Now this 17 year old kid might be the next recording guru and a freaking genius but my gut feeling is that the band's recordings sound like shit and the kid has pissed his money ( or his parent's money ) up against the wall....

During the course of the day, the station played three songs from local bands I recorded many years ago. They didn't sound that great either ... but still .. they are being played 27 years after being made.

Back to servicing Neve channels .....

[rick]

In my experience from the time you start in earnest trying to figure out the stuff we use to record music
it takes three years full time before you actually know enough about whats what to know you didn't know squat .

which is why EVERY band that spends their lotto money on a home recording studio to save on studio costs disappears down the rabbit hole for years at a time.

some of them emerge as home run hitting charting superheroes

but mostly the rest of them break up the band due to lack of interest and turn in to studio owners that find themselves years down the line talking about beer on the internet .

now where is Chris T and that lightening fast NBN report from the future..?

[The Tasmanian]

Here i am......
No NBN today - they made a mistake... have to wait longer.....
Red wine...

[rick]

oh bummer ..

I am writing a song its called "I can't wait any faster "

I am going to produce it record it mix master it and release it myself.

its unlikely to get pirated .. or finished for that matter.

but when I get the nbn ....

[ChrisW]

Here i am......
No NBN today - they made a mistake... have to wait longer.....
Red wine...

Sorry, had to laugh.
Vote Abbott because Labor have lied to you about the NBN (at least for today).

[The Tasmanian]

Just when I thought I was going to steal all of the music industry work in the country from you guys!!
There was not going to be a gig left unscathed!!
I was preparing to mix/record/master for 99c per track.. had a good business model worked out too.
isteal.

idrink....tonight

[Drumstruck]

Wow - I missed this whole conversation yesterday and probably lucky too - being up to the neck in everything you're talking about I could tell you stories that would make you hair curl

Sadly the NBN stops at Kiama and I was advised that the next rollout southwards is 2 years away - who knows if it's true or not (rhetorical)..... so 512K is as fast as I'm going for the foreseeable future.

The future of the music industry is in the past - the cycle of simple / complex / simple / complex needs to swing back to complex imo. Bring back the extended song, bring back dynamics (he wails to no-one listening)......

[Linear]

Interesting tangents...

Anyway I think that if music as a recorded medium was invented now, it'd have some kind of inbuilt IP protection. It's the only way you'd get people to invest everything that they do into the craft, and in particular the huge amount of capital required to make ~quality~ music (both in equipment and people).

It's like the app store. Imagine if people were to spend thousands (millions?) developing a great app, only to have that app downloaded and installed illegally. They wouldn't bother, would they?

But for various reasons the app store, and app developers are thriving. I want an app - I have to buy it. Sure you can jailbreak iphones - but who bothers? very few i'd imagine. Just couldn't be bothered.

Note that it's psychological as well - people have always paid for good apps, so it doesn't bother people to pay two bucks for something useful or entertaining as there's no precedent of 'free'.

If only we could get some kind of closed, IP protected medium for music delivery.

I know however, that for music in it's current form it'll never happen. Maybe we need some kind of new format for music? Something new, something different. Something left of centre, outside the square etc etc. Some kind of new aural experience, like Hi Fidelity or Stereo - gamechangers in the past.

For those naysayers - i remember being quite happy with my Nokia phone back in 2004. It took photos, had games, made phone calls. I didn't know any different.

Then along came the iphone - and it dramatically moved our expectations of what a phone could be, and what a phone could do. And another massive industry was spawned from nothing out of this new device.

????

[ChrisW]

Well yes. I pretty much agree with all of that.
UA are doing quite well with their closed system of plug-ins. As an owner/user myself I think they are over priced.
But I would never use anything pirated.

[Wiz]

I think your thoughts on people paying for APPS is really interesting. I hadnt thought of that.
Its going round the old noggin.

thanks for the brain nudge.

[Drumstruck]

If only we could get some kind of closed, IP protected medium for music delivery.

I guess you mean some form of 2-factor authentication Chris - technology that is widely used today and could be applied quite easily.... but there are people around who could re-record anything pretty well for piracy purposes.... I'm starting to think it's those audio engineers who are to blame

[Chris H]

Great points Chris. I do think there was a mindset of striving for better quality, against the limits of the technology
of the day, with both "content providers" and consumers back in the mid last century that is not the same dynamic with the many content providers and most consumers of today. Perhaps its the convenience factor or "the short concentration span syndrome" but if circumstances where the same now as back then, as soon as high speed internet became widespread then most consumers would be going for high def content and DSD would be getting a good foothold in the market place. So my fundamental question is...why isn't DSD getting broad based consumer acceptance in the audio market when Hi Def / Blu Ray movie content has a respectable level of acceptance? Could it be that there are no equivalent to the "loudness wars" in the visual production world? One of the motto's I have had in my work since day one in audio is to never let technology get in the road of the artistic intent and emotional impact whether live or in the studio.
So, here's my take on where audio is at:
......how do you FEEL when you are listening to a hyper loud advert voice over that has every pause and breath edited out of the entire 30 second monologue so the message gets crammed into it's meager time slot? I feel out of breath and uptight just listening. Well I think there is a similar thing going on as a result of the loudness war dynamic (pun intended)........ no wonder no one can listen to an entire album in one sitting. I'm listening to a lot of new great music that is more folky and derivative of the 60's and 70's yet the production style does not re enforce and complement the cool relaxed feel good of the songwriter/performers intent.
The production style, in subtle ways, fights against the songs message........what a F'd up situation. Can't "they" hear what they are doing?....... and it's not just at the mastering stage.
Most probably they can't because they don't have any terms of reference!

I'm sure there is more to it but this is a significant factor.

[The Tasmanian]

The App analogy is very apt !

Vinyl is still a good medium to release on. At least it sounds good.

As far as the industry workers here surviving into the near future, the one big help would be a national NBN - irrespective of the waiting time for it to get to us.
Murdochs copper version will be a massive stab in the back for us as an industry struggling to survive.

For me - the infrastructure contracts have all been signed for Tassie, so I will get the non Murdoch version soon.
Plus Tasmania will be the only state where it is fully implemented.

We all live in this "I want it now" world, where we expect even the NBN rollout technology to be instantly available (like an app).
Politics aside, a vote for the NBN at the next election will radically help us work nationally, and with the world, and maybe survive into the future.
Without it - I'll probably move to doing albums as a hobby - i'll be gone.
No question.
(i've got one foot outside the door already)

[Drumstruck]

damn router just crashed.... turn off all connections.... turn off router.... wait 10 seconds.... reboot... wait 3 mins for connectivity->IP->PPP..... restart connections.... now, where were we?? Oh yes, the NBN that will save our souls

not meaning to be sarcastic, but that's reality

[The Tasmanian]

Patience Ian!
good things come to those who wait.....(hopefully)

[Drumstruck]

Patience Ian!
good things come to those who wait.....(hopefully)

I hope you're right Chris - I pay for 512Kbps of patience and receive 88Kbps at times ..... patiently watching the spinning halcyon.... thank all deities for analog

[Linear]

I guess I'm referring to the whole thing, including playback device rather than the audio itself.

I mean, what's an app without an iphone or an ipad? worthless code. Note you could copy the output of the app (screenshots, make a video, record the audio output) but who wants that? Nobody, they want the functioning app.

So I mean we need to do something new that provides a new level of entertainment to the consumer. What that is I don't know, but that's what I mean.

If I was to step into my futurist shoes, I would imagine some new kind of playback system that gives you a new experience somehow. Something that is more than just the digital data that ChrisT keeps referring to. Something that you CAN'T get with a laptop and a pair of shitty earbud headphones.

It's funny how BOTH an app or a song purchased and downloaded from apple, is just 3 or 4 megs worth of 1's and 0's. People are more than happy to pay to use one, but the other seems as though it ~should~ be available free to all. also one is easily copied and used on any playback device, one is proprietary and protected and not easily duplicated.

-----

My biggest beef with music at the moment is the playback systems - I don't know specifics but I reckon most people listen to music either a) on their TV, b) on their laptop speakers or c) on shitty iphone headphones. It's not coincidence that a majority of kids (15-20 year olds) listen to music via youtube. pretty sure I read it somewhere. if you're not convinced, look up a song on youtube that's currently in the US charts. Gotye's somebody I used to know has over 250m 'views'.

So 16 year-old joe blo listening to music can't really tell the difference between something recorded and mixed at Blackbird Studios and some track done by a 17 year old in the Adelaide Hills. a plug-in limiter seems to be the only difference between the two in this paradigm, and 'louder' is the oldest and easiest trick in the book.

If we all had great playback systems (a nice luxman amp with a pair of tannoys?) the difference would be night/day and maybe the production values might count for more.

Chris

[ether]

Speaking as an app developer (who's in the process of giving it up for less lucrative pursuits!), I don't think the app analogy to music ultimately works, though there are some good ideas in the previous posts.

In short, consider the iPad as a big fat dongle for an app. No dongle, no app. And, as of today, there's no other way to run the app, e.g. in an emulator on a computer. (In 10 years we WILL have an "iOS emulator", like there are Nintendo emulators now, but not yet).

Digital music is MUCH more transferrable between formats or playback systems. So you spend a gazillion dollars on a vinyl release, or DSD, or Pono, or your new fangled super secure uber-format or whatever, then some 13 year old with Dad's gear just rips it to MP3 and puts it out on Bittorrent.

You can't stop piracy of music through technology alone. It has to be through some as yet unknown new business model, cultural change, deep "industry" evolution or something.

[Linear]

Speaking as an app developer (who's in the process of giving it up for less lucrative pursuits!), I don't think the app analogy to music ultimately works, though there are some good ideas in the previous posts.

In short, consider the iPad as a big fat dongle for an app. No dongle, no app. And, as of today, there's no other way to run the app, e.g. in an emulator on a computer. (In 10 years we WILL have an "iOS emulator", like there are Nintendo emulators now, but not yet).

Digital music is MUCH more transferrable between formats or playback systems. So you spend a gazillion dollars on a vinyl release, or DSD, or Pono, or your new fangled super secure uber-format or whatever, then some 13 year old with Dad's gear just rips it to MP3 and puts it out on Bittorrent.

You can't stop piracy of music through technology alone. It has to be through some as yet unknown new business model, cultural change, deep "industry" evolution or something.

well that's my point exactly. digital music (and video) is WAY too transferable. An ipad/iphone is what makes the App world work, both logistically and financially.

I don't really like closed systems - but a very smart Mr Jobs believed that it was really the only way forward for apps. todays SMH had an article about how many dodgy apps live in the android world, and it's exactly what apple warned about during the app stores inception.

so a cool new closed system for delivering a ~new~ type of audio experience. it sounds ridiculous but you need to free your mind of what you know of audio today.

it's not that hard - i'm old enough to remember when CD's came out. it was amazing, and it was a game changer. no more finicky, degrading LP's and far better quality than cassette. In the beginning at least, there was no way to copy CD's either. If you wanted Brothers In Arms in digital, you had to go out and buy it.

But CD wasn't proprietary (if it was it probably wouldn't have taken off) and it was just a better way of reproducing what already existed.

[Drumstruck]

As I see it the problem isn't in the available technologies / media or the price point i.e. decent domestic powered speakers are reasonably affordable and high quality downloadable or hard-coded music is do-able....

.... so is the barrier now the mindset of the listening public?

I remember the "home stereo" having pride of place in the lounge room (or bedroom), whereas now it seems to be very individual listening in the earbud camp.

.... do the youth of today get together and listen to music like "we" used to?
... is this the mindset that needs to be manipulated?

They need more acid, man

[ChrisW]

The trouble is, Apps didn't exist before the dongle that uses them.
There are billions of copies of 'Like A Virgin' and 'Back In Black' swilling around the virtual world already.
You'd have to find a way to draw people in to a whole new listening, or ownership experience to put that genie back in the bottle.

[ChrisW]

.... do the youth of today get together and listen to music like "we" used to?

Music has never been in more places, more central to everyday life as it is now.
But the youth of today haven't experienced paying for it, therefore they don't ascribe any particular value to it, it's just there.
I guess it's sort of like being told you owe the park a $5 fee for kicking a football around.

[ether]

...they don't ascribe any particular value to it, it's just there.
I guess it's sort of like being told you owe the park a $5 fee for kicking a football around.

Spot on. Or, spot-ify on, if you will.

This will be the trend. Even more here, there and everywhere.

Better quality, more available at the click of a finger, wherever and whenever you want.

With very low barrier to entry for music makers to make their stuff.

Lots of 1c transactions flying around the universe continually.

So, now, how to make a career in that?

Good question.

[The Tasmanian]

There is no way out really - we have to supply music in some format that the consumer has to play it back with.
Every artist cannot make his/her own format.
Game over.

Which always gets me back to the same point.
Recorded music is now an advertisement - nothing more.
It holds no more value - it never will again.

Its what you do with the punter who is engaged after listening to your ad that counts.

Does it take the now engaged punter to a website where he can donate and support the artist?
Buy clothing/merch?
Become engaged with the artist, so that when they come to play locally, they get a VIP pass to shows?
Then music transcends its shitty MP3 valueless status, and now becomes a powerful medium when the punter passionately connects with the work.
They want more (for a while)

Most recorded music is now a business card, or a musical pamphlet, or a marketing ploy, an advertisement.
Radio is soon to be dead.
Record companies RIP too ( I welcome that - who needs a middle man for 99c per track?).

Which leaves our industry as a dinosaur collective, trying to squeeze the last few $ from the toothpaste tube.

) - but a passionate bunch of dinosaurs we are!

[Drumstruck]

.... do the youth of today get together and listen to music like "we" used to?

Music has never been in more places, more central to everyday life as it is now.
But the youth of today haven't experienced paying for it, therefore they don't ascribe any particular value to it, it's just there.
I guess it's sort of like being told you owe the park a $5 fee for kicking a football around.

No argument with that Chris - I was thinking more about when we were young fellas....

Do you remember buying a record and sitting around with your friends just to listen to that record? It used to be an event - I'm guessing that you (like I) knew people who would shoosh anyone talking so we could hear "that great bit there" ....

is this still a happening thing? or have other pastimes taken over? is music more peripheral now because it is everywhere?

[The Tasmanian]

Yes Ian! - its now noise - in every shop/lift/plane/car - everywhere.
Eventually it becomes like background noise/traffic.
Of no value - why would we pay for noise ?
to top it off its just cheap part time data..
Its all part of the psychology of music becoming worthless

[ether]

We have to trade in magic and mystery. Become wizards or something. We're not selling music, we're dispensing dreams.

Yesterday I dropped into a Sydney record store (yes, a few still exist) and swooned over a vinyl copy of You Am I's Hi Fi Way, and Talk Talk's Colour of Spring. I ditched all my vinyl years ago, and now regret it totally. The wife would kill me, but I'm itching to get a turntable again.

I think there's enough human desire and need for the transcendent and the meaningful to support some people, somehow.

Note to self : stop reading this thread and go put the guitar parts down for that song...

[ChrisW]

The problem for me is that the recording is more important than the live show, or the t-shirt, or the sponsored fragrance.
I totally understand that the record is now a promo, but it's like saying eating at Tetsuya is promo for him, or driving a Bentley is promo for the UK.
I actually like the product more than the band often.
I like 'Walking On A Dream' (as a record), but have no desire to see them live, or buy the next Empire Of The Sun album.