Pump Organs

[Text_Edifice]

That's a adjective, not a verb...

I've been really taken by the sound of old reed organs and their larger cousins and think I want one. I really like the bass / sub tones and the way the sound breathes as the bellows are pumped. What I'm wondering is:

Is anyone secretly a guru on these instruments?

What to look for (other than that it sorta wheezes in tune)?

Cheers

[Text_Edifice]

Oh, and I basically only want the bottom couple of octaves. Is there anything else out there with a similar sound?

[jkhuri44]

have you seen these vids?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJyN78dqWEI

You'll need to buy a Doepfer or smila bass pedal/MIDI solution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P0_CfKrI3A

Then, an air pump which any of the DIY guides online from people who have made PVC versions would have shared im sure.

[Text_Edifice]

That's pretty awesome, not quite what I'm after though. When you pedal a pump organ you control the amount of air in the system and, along with these switch thingies by your knees, you can create very organic sounding pads that swell incredibly expressively. They also seem pretty cheap....

[wez]

I've played a bunch of these over the years, and I've seen just as many end up in skips too... so there's your first bit of advice - don't pay (much) for one! They are big and heavy and people are often throwing them out.

Second piece of advice - check the tuning. I've never played one that was at 440Hz, most are around an eighth to a quarter tone out (usually sharp, 445-450Hz?). Relatively easy to fix if you're recording droney stuff, not as much fun for melodic parts.

The pedal mechanisms get a lot of work, so that's where they tend to break. Also air leaks are a problem. Make sure all the stops work. Remember how old these things usually are. But they are generally very sturdy and well built.

Do you have a Stairmaster? You can get rid of that, a good pump organ will give you all the thigh workout you'll ever need.

I've had to knock back a couple over the years for lack of space, but I do love 'em. And my thighs are magnificent.

[peat]

how about the harmonium, it's a good guy, have a look at about 2:24:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7FeqWOLZ64

[Text_Edifice]

Cool video - I think a harmonium and pump organ are basically the same thing (alternate names for reed organs).

Thanks for the info Wez, I figure $100-$200 is a good price for something that's in ok working condition. Maybe a bit mroe if it's been restored?

[Text_Edifice]

Another question Wez - how easy is it to fix the tuning?

[wez]

Another question Wez - how easy is it to fix the tuning?

My guess would be not easy at all, maybe impossible. The pitch would be determined by the size of the reeds I would think. When I said 'fix', I meant pitch shifting/varispeeding, which can work fine (or not).

As for price... that sounds reasonable, especially if you find something you love. There is nothing like the bass that can come out of one of these guys.

[Chris H]

I've played quite a few and recorded one or two. Most important thing is that they are in ok condition and the bellows don't leak! If they do you will be pedaling like mad just to get a "small tune out and the pedal noise will be over the top. Forget about tuning to concert if they are a bit flat or sharp. The main thing is that they are reasonably in tune with themselves, and forget about perfection when it comes to tuning, their idiosyncrasies are a big part of their charm.....It's far easier to just de tune the whole song in your DAW to the organ and record your part then tune the DAW back up. If your DAW doesn't cope, then do a mix of the song and load it in Reaper as it's fantastic for this. I use Logic and it's fine as well.
I love the old wind bag pedal organs for the right tune and place in a mix.

[rick]

I have three of them
They are all pitched a little differently
You can pull them apart and file every reed
To get them right .. But i havent
Andy stewart did it once !

But really its used to be easier
To varispeed the multitrack
Or tune everything to it .
I havent recorded mine in years one in the foyer at work
One in the hallway at home and steve has one in my shed
Somewhere .. His toured as theatre piece for some production
He did then he kept it

I love watching neil young live he always has one on stage !

At anyprice you wont likely find one tuned to a440

[Text_Edifice]

Rick - you want to trade me a pump organ for those Gefell caps I gave you last year?

I actually found a guy down here (Tas) that used to restore and tune the organs to concert pitch, but he's out of the game apparently.

Of the couple I've played I think I want one with a sub-bass reed, the breathey low end is something to behold. What I really want is the bass sound I heard sitting in the choir stalls of an old church emanating from the pipe organ – it made the pews shake. A little reed organ might come close.

[rick]

If you want to come and get one dave .. sure they arent too heavy but they are as big as a piano

still havent tried those caps but its a great reminder !

you can easy pay $1000-1500 for them in antique stores .. cos they look so nice
every one i have ever seen has an issue of some kind
but really mine have no use for me other then a gunna one day ..
make it easy for and you can have one swapsies

[Text_Edifice]

I'll look into options to get one down here from Sydney. May prove to be more bother than its worth but you never know.

[gigpiglet]

you never know when your old mate gareth might be sending a truck down…
nothing in the diary right now
but i always post when I've got vehicles moving interstate..

[Text_Edifice]

Thanks Gareth, I still owe you a beer when you're next through town.

[Chris H]

Went looking at my photo archives and found a few pics. The best one I've recorded wasthis Estey. It was delivered to the studio in a horse float, from a dairy farm in Gippsland.

Estey_Pump_Organ.jpg

Estey#3.jpg

[Chris H]

Ended up using this mic position in M/S to minimise pedal noise and give options of stereo with a solid centre immage or mono using either mic.

[Text_Edifice]

I think Neil Young's is an Etsey as well - though I can't imagine there's that much difference in designs between manufacturers.

[mylesgm]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Harmonium-Es ... cd6&_uhb=1

cheap if you can fix the bellows.

[casey_rice]

I've got an Estey smaller model from 1912. Found it working.. bellows good all that. There is a lot of info online about restoring them if that's your bag. It's a pretty tedious job from what I can tell.

[headman]

I know this may sound heretical: Yamaha made a reed organ, the DS 49, with an electric motor and pump, and it was at concert pitch. One sold on eBay in Melbourne last month.
I hate pump organs, a whole lot of work for not a great result.

headman

[Text_Edifice]

Actually that's on my scavenger list, if it's the one I'm thinking of it has a kind of accelerator pedal to push air through the reeds? Anyway, will see what turns up. I think they sound alive and interesting but I take your point.

[headman]

That's the one. A sort mock swell pedal, and from memory they were reasonably quiet.
That's one of the major hurdles for pump organs, no matter what you do, it's a noisy operation.
I have a friend I see occasional that has the Honher equivalent of the Yamaha. Next time I see him
I'll ask if he wants to part with that.

headman

[Text_Edifice]

that'd be great - thanks

[rick]

Mine are estleys and of coarse the pedals that go with it
Sound like your pumping up leaking leather and paper bags
Which
of
coarse
You
Are

[Text_Edifice]

After all that, I just picked an Etsey up locally for a couple hundred bucks with restored bellows and tuning within a hit if concert pitch.

[Chris H]

After all that, I just picked an Etsey up locally for a couple hundred bucks with restored bellows and tuning within a hit if concert pitch.

Well then ......you should be playing cricket for Australia!

[Text_Edifice]

*hint of* stupid phone