Quick Question about 45rpm 12"

[Julian Nichols]

So I'm looking at pressing a split 12" 'single' with another band, and we can either have one track each (5-7 mins on each side) or 2 tracks each (roughly 12-13 mins on each side due to the length of the particular tracks).

Is 13 minutes pushing it for fidelity on a 12" 45? We aren't worried about volume (it's not for DJs, more collectors), but we do want it to sound good.

[stosostu]

Record albums (12") are cut at 33.3 RPM and had great fidelity with a track length of, up to, 25 minutes per side, so I would suggest that 12-13 minutes at 45 RPM would not be a stretch and the higher rotational speed will give you better highs anyway. JMHO

[Alastair Reynolds]

This sounds like a "Rick Question" if ever there is one.I guess there would be a trade- off between S/N and dynamic range. The best sounding 12" 45s I have are 10 min or less and are punchy and quiet (S/N wise).Much would depend on the cutting engineer and the lathe etc etc ....... Rick !!!!!! Tell us all the real story.

[Chinagraf]

From memory when we were doing 12"s around 9 minutes is optimal. The longer your program, the quieter it has to be, and also the less bass you will get. Also high frequencies diminish the closer the needle gets to the centre of the disc.

[rick]

andy is on the money
13 minutes is too long if its a dance record thats going to get spun next to another one thats short and hot .. at that length it will come out at maybe 0 or -1 when the goal is +3 or plus 4 at 45 rpm ( secret record cutting vu calibrations that mean nothing to anybody else in 2014 ) but really it just depends on the program sounds wether its a compromise or not ..

actually you know what .. f@#$ it just press what ever length it runs .... unless its jazz or opera or classical your not going to hear the surface noise any more or any less then if it was 10 minutes long anyway .

my name is rick
i was just trying to help

[Julian Nichols]

Thanks for that, Rick!

So I think I was right in assuming that even at 13 mins it's not going to sound worse than a 33 cut at +0, and possibly a fraction better.

Looks like I have my answers, 45rpm it is. Anyhow it would look a bit silly having only 2 tracks each side of a 33.

[Manning]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thick_as_a_Brick

[Alastair Reynolds]

I actually do have an English pressing 33 of a 6 track EP by "The Planets" from 1980. 3 tracks per side,10-12 mins per side and cut fairly hot .Great bottom end and dynamics.Still a great sounding EP.
Question for Rick, if well cut,will there be that much difference in the top end between the 33 and the 45 ? Or is it out towards the extreme and not actually detectable ?

[rick]

"Well cut" on a vms 80 without time or budget limitations there is no freq limitations to either
Speed worth talking about
There is a touch more distortion in playback on a 45 due to the circumference of most
Of the music being worse on a 45 then in the middle of a 33
But thats not the cut its the setup and quality of the arm

But really in todays world with todays music ( limited dynamic range )
And mega bass and top end its a impossible target to call
" well cut" by the guy on the night shift in the former czech republic
Without the budget for a single test cut on a laquer is different to what it was
When i could blow 5-10 laquers anf take hours till i got it perfect .
So be thankfull if your vinyl plays at all is my thoughts