autotune (well.. waves tune)

[gigpiglet]

let me start by saying i have never used auto tune (or wave tune or melodyne)

not to say i have never tuned anything… if i had a bad word/ note i would highlight the section and process with pitch shift - up or down however many cents that i can hear it was out. or have the performance go again if i had that option.

but - live recording - big band (won't say who) big single, and lead vocal is pitchy as f%^&,
so - i jump in the deep end, watch a few tutorials on youtube, and see if i can fix it.
i have wave tune as part of my waves package so in this instance that is where i head.

it worked.
sort of.
in that… with a few adjustments i got a useable vocal pass.
and hopefully get this audio approved.
but - there are some horrible high frequency artefacts. not too bad for this live recording, i can bury under the crowd and so on, but if this where a record i was releasing i would say its un-useable.

is that the norm with tuning software?
or is it user error?

[dave01.cooper]

is that the norm with tuning software?
or is it user error?

Bit of both in my workings with it Gareth unfortunately... it is a slippery slope though.
I've used it once on a live recording (waves tune as well) with good success but luckily for me the singer wasn't horribly out, just a few cents here and there. Really needed tuning though as melody & gtr line followed the singer thus needed to be bang on.

I find that tuning the vocals before you eq/comp/whatever in post works better for the algorithms within waves tune. could just be me but that's what i've found working with it. drawing the line also seems to give it more of a smooth effect rather than just clicking & 'snapping to grid' the correct note, gives it more of a human feel and not so many metallic artifacts are introduced. had some success with using izotope RX and sonnox noise reduction plugins to reduce some yucky tuney noise via audiosuite afterwards too...
Melodyne is a much better beast than auto tune & waves tune imho. Sounds a lot nicer (is that possible?!) and easier to manipulate before sounding phasey, metallic etc.

Have you ever used it live when mixing FOH on an insert? I've heard of it being used but never seen it done...

Cheers!

Btw sent you an email re edacs

[gigpiglet]

thanks dave
i have never used it live - but it seems to be the "norm"
whenever i do the "big" shows (pink, taylor swift to name the most recent ones that come to mind) there is a PT engineer sitting right next to the FOH guy doing the tuning on insert

[Chinagraf]

Most likely tracking errors which can happen and will happen more if there is any background spill in the track. It also seems to happen more with Waves tune than with Autotune. I find Waves to be the worst of the lot.
As mentioned Melodyne is probably the best but you need to do it manually and pitch by ear. The great advantage being you can also alter and redraw pitch modulation and slide between pitches to get a really natural sounding result. I've done tuning work for some people overseas with Melodyne working all manually and have gotten such good results that I have questioned the morality of what I have done.

You may get around the tracking errors by constraining autotune to the specific key of the song you are working on, but it really depends on the melody.

[dave01.cooper]

I've done tuning work for some people overseas with Melodyne working all manually and have gotten such good results that I have questioned the morality of what I have done.

This should go in your signature Andy!!! Classic.

[jkhuri44]

tuning programs all cause sibilant issues imo and experience.
i edit out all sibilants and crossfade with the untuned version, for anything where i need quality

[walding]

No matter how subtle the 'tuning' or the program used for it, I can always hear it.

The last EP I recorded for client, she did a great take but there was a few issues with pitch, the studio had melodyne which is supposed to be the best, I tuned a few notes 20 30 % and she said and I quote, I hate that, please don't do that, stood up and went it and retracked them...

[gigpiglet]

when i select a word, and pitch shift (not with auto tune, with the standard pitch shift plug in) say 10 or even 20c
i can't hear it..

so its the "auto" part that sounds bad (to me)

not the tuning

if you know what i mean

[jkhuri44]

i never use automatic algorythm.
always look at the pitch graphs and adjust according to the strengths of the performance.

[gigpiglet]

yeeeees. understand that
as some others have mentioned too.
but that still creates a "sound"

totally different to just a straight pitch shift (but it shouldn't be right?)

its all new ground to me!
so interesting to hear (see?) how others do things

[Text_Edifice]

At the risk of gross simplification and possible error, you are shifting formants around so you are going to introduce some weird artefacts and ime weird stuff happens to.the air / tops. With melodyne on full manual mode you can work some of this out with patience and time but when I've done this the vocal always feels like it gets a weird sheen to it. It's in the from of stuff that bugs me that most no-one else is going to notice or care about though.