Music computers in 2014 - does the technology work for you?

[Andrew Lye]

Having spent every night last week and a good part of my weekend troubleshooting audio problems on my home recording PC, I want to find out... does the technology work for you?

In the last ten years, I've invested a huge amount of time and money towards recording computers, interfaces, DAWs and have never owned a solution that just works.

I've found myself constantly upgrading software, recording interfaces, changing operating systems, changing from PC to Mac (and back again) in efforts to resolve issues but for every problem eliminated, new ones appear. When seeking out support, the place of purchase or manufacturer is quick to place blame elsewhere and seldom takes the lead to work towards a resolution with you.

What are your experiences with music computers? Is this the norm?


Andrew

[Chris H]

Yes it does and has most of the time. That's not to say there haven't been times I have had to nut out some problems.
It took a while to sort out sync issues using SYMPTE when I was recording to tape and using computers to extend track count and for midi. I have mostly used Mac with logic but in the mid 90's used spectral producer which was sort of a fore runner to Paris. We always seemed to nut out the problems encountered. It is essential though to have a music computer specialist to call on when you can't resolve an issue, particularly with PC's. Typical examples of when I have had to call for help are when a particular PC has a fire wire chip not comparable with a particular brand of interface and the specialist is up with all this sort of info that is just too much detail for me to have my head around all the issues. If I was using a PC for music my advise is to get some who really has extensive knowledge to put together a computer purpose built for the job.

[Djembe]

When you base your chosen craft on technology, it's always going to be a work in progress. The update thing can be a bit of a pain. Just when everything is working fine, you're forced to update something in the chain, which then won't talk to something else etc.
I envy carpenters who can use the same godamm hammer all there lives without having to update to V2.06. I guess although it's about the house and not the tools, a hammer that works would be mighty fine.

[Wiz]

Some will agree, some will roll their eyes...

When I jumped over to Mac/Logic/RME that stuff basically went away.

I think a lot of it depends on what you do.

How many tracks, Virtual Instruments, I/O requirements, Latency requirements etc

I have always viewed new purchases as a system, rather than components.


cheers

Wiz

[Drumstruck]

I'm with you 100% - my dislike of computers is legendary...... but what option do we have? (rhetorical)

I suggest that the "best" way is to get a computer that works with your audio gear and keep it offline - avoid upgrades etc and retain this as your audio only computer - who cares if it isn't the latest and greatest O/S? Functionality for purpose is the key.

When you want to move "up" to the next level then build / buy / configure a replacement computer - and don't get rid of the old one until the new one has all the bugs sorted.

<repeat>

[Milo]

I'm in the same fortunate position as Wez: since I went to RME 6 years ago (and upgraded my RME through that time, mainly for expanded features), and using Nuendo on both Mac and PC, I have not had one issue with anything, including stability, latency, sync, dropouts, connectibility, etc.

My normal track count is not high, but I doubt I would have problems if I increased.

Milo

[walding]

I've had one program quit unexpectedly in 5 years...and that's because I did something stupid.

My system is stable in every way.. I don't have the latest and greatest or millions of plugins, but it still does everything I need and more.

In fact I have very few plugins...

[Manning]

I change machines about once every three years, and I avoid any upgrades in the interim. I will burn a week getting the new machine configured and sorted, and I simply live with that until the next time around.

I found once I moved to Windows all the hassles went away, but may be I was just very unlucky with my Macs (never any software issues, but endless hardware problems).

[Paul Maybury]

Hi, I don't update or upgrade anything that is working.
I use Logic on a Mac(or Hack), no third party plug ins. No internet connection. Motu PCI converters. NO WORRIES!!! That's the studio machine.
My portable machine is Logic on a Mac Book Pro, it's about 6 years old. Presonus firewire converters. That 'puter has third party plugins and internet. Again, it works fine. Never gets near running out of grunt. It has recently developed charging problems, so I will need to replace it soon.
I don't use software instruments, and very few plugs, so the computers are really glorified tape machines, although I do mix on the laptop sometimes, and the extra plugs on that are handy. But really, anything I need to do can be done with the Logic plugins and outboard.
I have no problems with drivers or stability on either machine.

Cheers,
Paul

[Drumstruck]

To add a little more..... I don't incur problems with brand x's computer reliability (generally).... nor with brand y's hardware add-ons or brand z's software components..... but when you add x, y and z together the niggling incompatibilities that no-one "owns" or "supports" can add up to (at worst) a non-functional pile of dookie and stress that one can do without or (at least) the occasional "nnnn CPU cannot...." - and that's usually right in the middle of recording that killer fill or a complex mixdown.

So, after 25+ years in IT the "cobbled together" systems still cause me grief and I feel sorry for those who have limited computer knowledge and just want a "system that works".

next>

[waitup]

I'm going to jump in on the "Yes, they do work for me in 2014" camp.

I (touch wood) have had next to no computer dramas in the last 5 years. My studio system is a Windows based computer that I built myself and a firewire audio interface. I reckon if your main music software is Pro Tools then there's a few simple things that you've just got to do, and you'll be fine. I'm sure the same goes for other software but I don't use any so I can't be sure!

a) Use an Intel branded montherboard and (obviously) Intel processor. i5 or i7 ideally.
b) Use more than enough, matched, quality RAM.
c) Run your sessions on one hard drive, install your OS on the other.
b) Be sure your version of your OS is compatible with your version of your music software, and don't update one without checking the other. On that note, check regularly for small updates to Pro Tools that sort out small bugs.
e) Make sure all your drivers are the latest versions.

If you do all those, I can't foresee any "incompatibilities", "crashes" blah blah. I'm in the middle of a really dense mix right now that has over 100 tracks including some virtual instruments and probably 2-3 plugins on each track, more on some. My machine eats it for breakfast and I built that machine for like 650 bucks. I can be writing emails/uploading mixes etc while it's running too... in fact I do it all the time. Actually today I was colour correcting a photo in Adobe PS and writing an email while a mix was printing, ha! I don't really buy in to the "keep it offline" thing. I can't remember the last time I saw the "CPU overload" or "Can't get audio off disks fast enough" messages.

I shouldn't have typed this... my computer wont boot tomorrow, will it?

[Andrew Lye]

Thanks for all the replies.

Really interesting to hear that for a majority of folks, the gear works more often than not.

Also interesting to see mentions of Logic being particularly stable. I agree that reflects my experience as well. I've never experienced a crash in Logic, it's always been hardware that's hampered performance.

For those of you using Logic, are you running a Mac Pro, or one of Apple's consumer-grade machines? Have you progressed to Mavericks or are you still running Mountain Lion\Snow Leopard?

Regards,

[Wiz]

Thanks for all the replies.

Really interesting to hear that for a majority of folks, the gear works more often than not.

Also interesting to see mentions of Logic being particularly stable. I agree that reflects my experience as well. I've never experienced a crash in Logic, it's always been hardware that's hampered performance.

For those of you using Logic, are you running a Mac Pro, or one of Apple's consumer-grade machines? Have you progressed to Mavericks or are you still running Mountain Lion\Snow Leopard?

Regards,

Mavericks

iMac (3.1Ghz i5, 27" 8 gig ram)

[Chris H]

Thanks for all the replies.

Really interesting to hear that for a majority of folks, the gear works more often than not.

Also interesting to see mentions of Logic being particularly stable. I agree that reflects my experience as well. I've never experienced a crash in Logic, it's always been hardware that's hampered performance.

For those of you using Logic, are you running a Mac Pro, or one of Apple's consumer-grade machines? Have you progressed to Mavericks or are you still running Mountain Lion\Snow Leopard?

Regards,

Quad core Intel Xeon Mac Pro with OS 10.6.8
Intel core i7 macbook pro. OS 10.8.5
At my day job I run logic on the Quad core Mac Pro with OS 10.6.8 but as we recently purchased the be!@#$%^& X32 digital console I found out Friday night as I was preparing to record a Jazz concert that there is a nasty conflict with that console and OS 10.6.8 so I did the recording on the macbook. So I will be updating the os on the Mac Pro.
( 1st impressions with the X32....does the job very well. Had it out of the box and mixing / recording the show with the afternoon to get my head around it's operation and sort out the conflict. )

[ChrisW]

Yeah, for me I've had very few issues. And no issues that weren't fixable fairly easily.
About five years ago I was using a 2007 iMac with Logic 9 and a Lynx Aurora.
As I say, it trucked along without issue.
Over two years ago I upgraded to a new 2012 iMac i7, 27", with a UAD Apollo.
I use both the Apollo and my Lynx Aurora with this iMac. I regularly use Logic 9, Ableton Live 9 and Pro Tools 11 and really have had zero issues. It just works.
So to answer the question, My Mac based set up has worked flawlessly 99.99% of the time.

[TAFKAT]

My experience is pooled from not only my own but also 100's of clients over the years, and for the vast majority the technology works very well. Ongoing issues are more the exception than the rule , and are the result of some rarer combination of variables that can unbalance the operation. That goes for both MAC and PC, I think the whole platform argument is irrelevant, and has been for a long time , but I don't see it going away as end users will have varying experiences from either side that will weigh it one way or the other.

Having said that, that doesn't mean there are not potential gremlins lurking , I have recently navigated some issues with a client that was having random spiking/dropouts on a previously rock solid system, which we eventually narrowed down to certain plugins and then further diagnosed it was AutoMap wrapped versions of said plugins. When we finally cornered the plugin developers with the evidence they reluctantly admitted their plugins do not support AutoMap, but for some reason hadn't thought it would be a good idea to inform their end users ? We wasted way too much time in a process of elimination, only to find the culprit is well known to cause these issue, but not overly spoken about. The catch is once the plugin instances are wrapped, if you unwrap them and try and force the session to use the native instances of the plugins, the sessions crash on opening. Joy. Rock and Hard place.

Don't get me started on AutoMap , and the issues are cross platform.

I digress.

[SteveL]

For those of you using Logic, are you running a Mac Pro, or one of Apple's consumer-grade machines? Have you progressed to Mavericks or are you still running Mountain Lion\Snow Leopard?

Mavericks 10.9.3
4.1 octo Mac Pro 2.26ghz/24gig ram
Aurora 16 with AES16e PCIe card and LS-ADAT card
Very stable with the latest logic version

Steve

[Ender]

Definite yes for me. Years ago I could never have imagined being able to do half the stuff I can do now with a computer as a major part of my audio setup. I do have to say though, taking the leap away from a firewire based setup (Digi003) up to a Symphony/PCIe setup did improve the reliability and overall performance a significant amount. Still running a MacPro/PT9 setup.

[rick]

I have two systems ( home and work )

At the studio i have
A hdx tools rig on last years mac pro and solidstate drives running the lastest
Os mavericks ( whatever it was last week )
And the lastest protools ( whatever it was last month)
With all the native instrument stuff and whatever plugs
Have tempted me by their excellence
I dont have any cracks or for that matter never have .

And another work computer running windows a lynx aes 16 card
And the latest sadie and the latest windows
This is the workhorse money maker for me .
Protools still owes me lots !

At home i have a 2009 mac pro running a protools hd native card
And the latest o/s and tools as well as logic
Plus all the native instrument stuff all the toontracks
Stuff and whatever ever else amused me its more the musical
Creative Computer in my life ..
Work is for money home is for fun is the new mantra in my life
That said
And i also have a boot camp system running sadie as well
So i can finish off the endless uploads and downloads of
Masters that seem to take up half my life !!
Kinda a couple of gig everyday in or out

I am going to get off bootcamp at home and get another
Ibm computer and use a lynx aes card for the sadie at home

Having both systems on the same computer is
Buggy ... Running windows some days and maverick
Some days moves things around preference wise
And drives me nuts

So point being that both my systems are huge up to date and
Way smarter then me .. Yet elegant working systems


But having one computer
Running two o/s still gives me grief

[The Tasmanian]

I think its an incredible time for computers working with music.
I have 3 systems, a HD rig running PT's - for mixing/recording. (its my tape machine)
Another Laptop runs PTs etc - for getting away from the desktop/ location.
Just moved over to Reaper on my newer Maci7 laptop - which allows me to run VST & AU plugs (so many good vst plugs!)
An ipad running many many killer music creating apps, which run midi via wi-fi and wired networks.
So I can control NI instruments on both laptops from the iPad. The Ipad also has an IDock to get me audio & midi in/out.
The iPad to me is the biggest game changer in creativity.
An abundance of really amazing apps being made by all of these nerds that do what bigger software companies would never attempt.
Complex arpeggiators, harmonizers, generators, musical analysis / FX / math apps etc etc - all music creation based apps.
Also NI have many killer (mostly free ) plugs that again creative nerds are constantly building and releasing - weekly.

So one machine is a straight up recording mixing platform.
The other computers are for creating - doing complex stuff.
Now that all of these systems talk to each other, I can also spread the CPU/RAM load out over a few computers, and lock them all up together.

Reaper has also confirmed - I'm done with Pootools - Its over darling!
No more Avid bleeding me on a yearly basis.
I would be very surprised if Avid survives with their (old/current) business model.
> Sink or swim.

Reaper was $60 !!!! - and its stable, constantly being upgraded (at no cost), customizable, and it is really good.

Amazing time for computers and music.

PS - would not want to own Avid shares.....

[heathen]

I've never had a real issue with my audio computers, have always run Windows based systems. Main things that gave me grief were soft synths, they often were quite buggy 5 years back I found, must be much better these days.

Running crazy plugin chains was a recipe for occasional grief also, my main system from 5 years back still runs flawlessly. It has Nuendo on Windows sp2, RME hdsp96/52 card running lightpipes into my apogee converters. Sounds sweet still. Only use it now and then to listen to tunes in between my prospecting trips these days.

In 2014 the technology should be working great for anyone using it.

Rick, Chris and Manning, hope you guys are all doing great!

[Senad]

I'm with you 100% - my dislike of computers is legendary...... but what option do we have? (rhetorical)

I suggest that the "best" way is to get a computer that works with your audio gear and keep it offline - avoid upgrades etc and retain this as your [b]audio only computer - who cares if it isn't the latest and greatest O/S? Functionality for purpose is the key.[/b]

When you want to move "up" to the next level then build / buy / configure a replacement computer - and don't get rid of the old one until the new one has all the bugs sorted.

<repeat>

This!
I have had my current system working for 8 years, including the same version of OS (Win XP) and same version of software (Cubase 4). I know this will sound ridiculous to some, but I am afraid of and have been avoiding upgrading, and it works for me.
I have been lucky that three different interfaces have been working with my current set-up.
I want to get pro-tools into my system soon, but I am so nervous about changing anything.
I will still be keeping everything as it is now, but just adding a version of PT. Hopefully, the only changes I'll have to make are installing another OS on a different drive and installing PT, making it work with my current interface.

[Drumstruck]

I don't want to curse you Senad, but you can sometimes get conflicts between apps that cause grief to your build. e.g. I had a Win system running PT, Reaper and Wavelab - both Reaper and Wavelab caused issues when they would not release the driver - usually requiring a reboot....

I'd recommend a full backup of your system before applying any upgrades / new software. Also, establish a known stable recovery point that you can revert too.

[Senad]

Thanks Ian, will take all the precautions, of course. BTW, is anyone doing this kind of thing... 2 OS on different drives with different applications and a common interface (not simultaneously, of course )

[justmull]

I want to work on windows but the last PC I built doen't seem to like my soundcard (Mackie 1220i) and the soundcard just drops out completely after a while when running the asio drivers. Tried 3 different firewire cards with the same result. I may have to take the advice above and get an intel mobo (this one is an asus).
So I'm stuck on a 2010 Macbook Pro - I hate it because it's not right ergonomically for me and is always all over the house.
My work machine is running Windows and is very stable, but we use Ableton atm and I always have problems with its indexer and library, and it crashes with certain plugins sometimes.
So to answer the question - not really.
I think an old mac pro running windows will be my next move.

[lonearranger]

Hi Justin,

Few things to check:

1) That you have speedstep disabled or a fixed ratio set for the CPU in you BIOS - cpu changing frequency can cause issues - especially with dropouts moreso than the death you mention.

2) Set your you firewire device as a legacy driver ( http://helpdesk.flexradio.com/hc/en-us/ ... cy-Version ). Make sure that the chipset of your firewire card is compatible with your soundcard - mackie should provide a list of compatible chipsets.

3) If your motherboard chipset is intel based then going to intel board may not provide any benefit. ASUS boards are pretty widely used in music system builds - what model is your Motherboard?

4) You could try something like reaper or bitwig demo just to see if the soundcard is working OK. If it does then your DAW software could be the problem.

Cheers

[Senad]

Justin, My mobo for 8 years has been BadAxe.. 975 chipset...it's been rock solid with MOTU PCI424, Apogee FW and RME HDSP9652.

[justmull]

Thanks for the tips lonearranger - I thought the second one had worked for me but I left sound playing overnight to test and its dropped out. On to tip number 3!

[lonearranger]

Thanks for the tips lonearranger - I thought the second one had worked for me but I left sound playing overnight to test and its dropped out. On to tip number 3!

You are probably across this but the 1220i support page mentions using specific drivers based on serial numbers : http://www.mackie.com/products/onyxiseries/drivers/

Cheers

[panman9]

To go off topic a bit as to why these problems exist

I suppose there's always going to be compatibility issues with computer hardware unless it all comes down a uniform locked down system similar to what apple is moving towards with their mac lines, which i hope never happens because it would take away the freedom to choose the best components for a specific job.

But with the thousands of different combinations you can have with a pc i suppose its hard for software developers to cater to everyone.
I think the best way to avoid that kind of thing is to buy from brands with good driver support, some companies these days really have some shocking driver support that leads to all kinds of compatibility issues with other hardware.
It really becomes noticeable if you use an OS other then windows, namely Linux, some companies have terrible support or just flat out refuse to make drivers at all for anything other then windows, leaving the communities to bodge up some drivers as a sort of bandaid fix to get some features of whatever device working.

I think just overall better software support of the product from the companies making the devices would do a world of good for compatibility/stability, just my 2 cents i guess