making male vocals BIG!

[jkhuri44]

Gday dudez...

just wonderin if anyone can share any "secrets" in regards to making an actually "thin"...and semi high pitched male voice..sound "bigger"..and more..."manly"....


this is more of a mix question...as i know that part of engineering, you would select the right mic, that sounds "BIG".....

any ideas would be awesome... :)

[jkhuri44]

sorry...to be more clear..

"semi high pitched" doesnt make alot of sense...i just got up...haha

i mean more....thin framed, not buff.....

etc...

[davemc]

What mics and pres do you have. Try a few combos and see which sounds better I have have used anything from kick mics to LDC and see which works. You can always try double tracking or running a duplicated channel heavy compressed under or delay/chorus/dist etc. Although try to get the best sound you can to start with switch mics and pres around.

[Aearth]

Just put the vocal track over a delay set to under 40 ml sec and EQ it.


nIC

[TimS]

Just put the vocal track over a delay set to under 40 ml sec and EQ it.


nIC

A little micropitch goes a long way too - about -6 to +6 cents, 10-15% mix..
TimS..

[rick]

cut the bejesus out of the top end so it really sounds dull and send it into a la2a ( or a plugin) untill you have demolished the dynamic range ( say -6 to -10 on the meter)
then boost the bottom end untill it sounds big fat and dull but not woolly ( ie around 100hz but not lower)
then recompress that track with the la2a

so now you should have a lifeless thudding bottom end vocal track



mix that in behind your original track then and limit and eq the both of them as one track
ride every vocal line in the mix with attention to the sound of the combined track

if that does not work out
start wishing you recorded him with more care and thought about the mix:)

[jkhuri44]

ive tried delay stuff and pitch stuff beofre.. but this "vocal thud" track track mixed in with the original sounds interesting..

cant wait to try it,

thanks for that guys :)

[jamesrocks]

Don't know if you've got your desired results now, however there's another thing you could try:
Editing the formants using Melodyne from Celemony or Avox Throat from Antares (I like Melodyne better). Thus you can change the voice's charakter (female to male and vice versa, whatever you like) leaving the pitch untouched. If you don't overdo, you get great results!
Check out www.celemony.com

A second thing: when you are tracking your vocs, not only the choice of mics and pres is crucial but also where you put the mic!
For thin and nasal voices it's a good method to put it in breast height about 0.5 - 0.8ft away from the chest, pointing to the mouth of the singer. This will make the voice sound fuller. You can also use 2 mics, one on the breast, the second in "normal" position but then you have to take care of phase problems.
Tried that out myself, works well...

Hope that helps!

[jkhuri44]

hey james, no i havent tried that chest voice thing :)
great tip...ill try out very soon..

and the antares plug ive never heard...will track it down!

[Aearth]

I'm a big fan double tracking vocals and guitars, try that maybe next time, or get the vocalist to do another pass on another track now then pan tracks hard left and hard right. Makes a huge difference.

nIC

[jkhuri44]

yeah,

ive been beginning to notice alot of music i like has a lot of that sort of double tracked vocal action :P

[davemc]

I'm a big fan double tracking vocals and guitars, try that maybe next time, or get the vocalist to do another pass on another track now then pan tracks hard left and hard right. Makes a huge difference.

nIC

yeah I have done this before as well. Although with some vocalists you have a lot of fun trying to get one good track he he
Worked with a girl who would double track and add all harmonies,talk bits etc etc. She had them all worked out in her head and we would do only 1-2 pass's sounded really nice.

If already recorded try the squish vocal underneath as another track, as well as maybe a dist track low underneath, chorus might help, small delays, a amb reverb, the old harmoniser -9 and +9 Left and right trick. There are a few things to try. A nice compressor might do it for you. I used to use my old Neve 2254 for vocals.
Depends on what style just distorting the track might work

[mfdu]

i've found i get less of a nasal sound by actually micing above the nose, pointing down to the mouth. about 6 to 12 inches away, season to taste.

(especially to achieve the 'broadcaster' sound)

i also pull out my dark and muddy chinese ribbon mic if i need to really thicken something up - just roll some air in on an eq.

chris
mfdu

[TimS]

Question (hopefully not too stupid);

If you had a good to great vox track, but just wanted to thicken it up a little, if you copied the take to a new track, compressed/(EQ'd if needed) it and then blended with original take, would you get phasing issues? Would you need to phase invert the second take/copy?

I'm still getting my head around phasing at the moment.
Sorry if this Q sounds a little basic - just helps makes things clearer in my mind.. I'm a little phased by phasing ;-)

TimS..

[Chris H]

Question (hopefully not too stupid);

If you had a good to great vox track, but just wanted to thicken it up a little, if you copied the take to a new track, compressed/(EQ'd if needed) it and then blended with original take, would you get phasing issues? Would you need to phase invert the second take/copy?

I'm still getting my head around phasing at the moment.
Sorry if this Q sounds a little basic - just helps makes things clearer in my mind.. I'm a little phased by phasing ;-)

TimS..

Re: Would you need to phase invert the second take/copy? No, the phase issue here would be due to any delay (not echo) caused by the signal going through extra processing. This is not a problem in analogue but occurs in digital when your plugins or audio application does not have automatic delay compensation.

Most software these days has automatic delay compensation, and if there is a problem you will hear it as you add the new processed track. To familiarise yourself with the slightly out of phase sound, turn off any processing on the 2nd track and expand the wave file. The peaks and troughs should be exactly the same as the original file. Now move the copy forward till it is half a trough or peak forward, and listen as you add that chanel to the vox mix.

[TimS]

Chris,
Thanks for the reply.. Will give it a whirl and have a listen..
TimS..

[Mark Bassett]

Check out http://www.prosoundweb.com/studyhall/st ... _and_phase

[Chris H]

Just tried this and found you might have to move the file a bit more forward than what i described earlier. The sound is like the vox is something like as though its through a PVC pipe.

[TimS]

Check out http://www.prosoundweb.com/studyhall/st ... _and_phase

Thats a great article - thanks for the link Mark..
TimS..

[TimS]

Just tried this and found you might have to move the file a bit more forward than what i described earlier. The sound is like the vox is something like as though its through a PVC pipe.

Hmm, PVC piping - could be used for effect!! ;-)
Thanks Chris..
TimS..

[Chris H]

Just tried this and found you might have to move the file a bit more forward than what i described earlier. The sound is like the vox is something like as though its through a PVC pipe.

Hmm, PVC piping - could be used for effect!! ;-)
Thanks Chris..
TimS..

Speaking of PVC pipe............ from the sublime to the ridiculous. My boys have just made a " Lemon Cannon".......... it works great.........sounds great...........now i feel compelled to mic it up for a few ballistic samples for my home grown collection

[TimS]

Just tried this and found you might have to move the file a bit more forward than what i described earlier. The sound is like the vox is something like as though its through a PVC pipe.

Hmm, PVC piping - could be used for effect!! ;-)
Thanks Chris..
TimS..

Speaking of PVC pipe............ from the sublime to the ridiculous. My boys have just made a " Lemon Cannon".......... it works great.........sounds great...........now i feel compelled to mic it up for a few ballistic samples for my home grown collection

HAHAHAHA - I could just imaging it - would make for a good youtube video too..
:-)
TimS..

[Mark Bassett]

As always, I can relate this to something to do with Tool.

Taken from the Mix article "The Making of Tool's "10,000 Days" which features an interview with Evil Joe Barresi and mastering engineer Bob Ludwig

"There were other interesting custom-made pieces of gear used on the sessions, such as the “pipe bomb microphone.â€

[Chris H]

Mark Andrew Bassett = The walking talking "Tool" cross reference encyclopedia

[Mark Bassett]

I'm 3 (work) degrees of seperation from MJK, and too many from natalie portman.

In the middle of programming (by hand via midi in tools) the drums patterns to a song of mine playing back out of BFD.

I'm sure there's an easier way, but until my mpc turns up....