LDC's and pick scrape in the vocals

[Chinagraf]

Season's greetings....
So I got this mic a while ago that I really like (MK47, Thiersch M7 capsule yadda yadda) but a few recent projects have been vocalists that are also playing electric. Amp in another room , all good, but the pick scraping in the vocal track drives me nuts. The plan is usually scratch vocal to be redone, but they end up loving the guide and never seem to get it as good when we try to retrack vocals. They don't really notice the pick in the vocal but by God I do.
It's fine with an acoustic guitar because you have the fundamentals kinda masking the pick noise. I don't wanna use something like 421's or other dynamics, because I love the sound of the LDC.
What are any others doing if anything to combat this sort of thing? I've been using expanders with some moderate success but there has to be more.... de-essers suck the big one..
Please tell me there's more?

[gigpiglet]

thats gotta all be about mic position man
i wouldnt even consider trying to fight it after the fact - if its recorded its there.

[Chinagraf]

Yeah Gareth, it is about mic position, A figure 8 to get the guitar in the null would be handy but this is only omni and cardioid. Do you think most artist would object to attaching a small bib type baffle around their neck with a coat hanger?

[wez]

Not much help when you need to fix it in post... but I might ask them to consider using a lighter pick. But to be honest if an engineer asked ME to use a lighter pick I'd probably tell them to f@#$ off.

So that's my helpful advice.

[The Tasmanian]

I would try the mic pointing upwards - it can make a big difference.
I have had success using a dummy 58 straight on, as a decoy to sing into, with the LDC pointing up to the mouth.

Or better, change voc mic for a SM7 or similar for tracking live.

I have had players go down to a slightly lighter gauge pick to reduce the level - and it has helped.
Although - if they did tell me to f@#$ off, I would really question their ego being more important than the recording ...(sorry Wez, no offence intended).

To keep the guide vocal with loud pick spill from guitar involves compromise - on engineers and players behalf, usually both need to help tame the spill level, plus a healthy dose of communication from the engineer to the player - as to why it will become a problem later in the mix.

[stosostu]

You could try having a second mic on the guitar, out of phase, and see if you can cancel the pick scratch in the mix.

[Chinagraf]

Thanks for the replies. I've searched all over for a dynamic I like the sound of but never really found the winner.
It's always a bit of a compromise. Can someone please invent a stealth pick made out of space age material.
Cheeers.

[Tone Master]

Have you tried spectral cleaning? You could download a demo of either Samplitude Pro X or Izotope RX4 and give it a go. I have had good results reducing acoustic guitar finger squeaks with Samplitude. Good luck.

[Chris H]

........... Can someone please invent a stealth pick made out of space age material.
Cheeers.

Yes, It's called a finger!
.......sorry, can't be of any more help.

[wez]

I have had players go down to a slightly lighter gauge pick to reduce the level - and it has helped. Although - if they did tell me to f@#$ off, I would really question their ego being more important than the recording ...(sorry Wez, no offence intended).

"If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now!" - Zaphod Beeblebrox, Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy

(Oh and I'd never tell you to f@#$ off if you were recording me Chris ;-) )

[Text_Edifice]

I've had this problem with a vocalist that really needed to play guitar at the same time as singing to get the take we needed. We ended up deciding there was no way we were getting the acoustic out of the vocal take so positioned the mic to get a good blend of both sounds that could work in the mix. Was a bit of work but worked out fine in the end - was better to go for a deliberate compromise and bake it in than try and correct it later down the line.

[Chinagraf]

Yeah makes sense Dave. It comes up a bit nowdays, so interested to hear how others are approaching it on the record side as opposed to trying to fix it later which is impossible.
Cheers.

[ether]

There's also some rubber picks on the market that I've been meaning to try. Might help a little.